Click to See All Bob's 2010 LSU Tiger Football Postings:

August 17, 2010

Thoughts on LSU Quarterbacks

Many in Tiger Nation will miss Zach Lee and most of us wish him the best of luck in his baseball career with the La Dodgers.  I cannot see how any reasonable person would expect this young man to pass up the millions of dollars that the Dodgers will pay him for the next five years.  In fact, had he stayed at LSU, the first interception that Z.Lee threw at least one joker would have yelled something like "I knew it! Anyone who passed up millions of dollars to play college ball can't have that good of judgment!" as he threw his LSU baseball cap on the ground and spilling his beer in the process.


Zach Lee's decision to take the millions, play for the Dodgers and not play quarterback for LSU has focused attention more intently on LSU's quarterback situation.  Many LSU fans in forums and reader comment sections probably correctly pointed out that Lee should not have expected to play much at LSU this year considering how infrequently Russell Shepard played last year.  A person that read my LSU's Schedule article  expressed concern that LSU could not attract strong quarterbacks and asked "What's so bad about playing QB at LSU?"
That question has struck a chord with me.

What Might Have Been Had LSU Successfully Recruited and Developed LA Talent
My first thoughts were of three Louisiana quarterbacks from the Shreveport area and two from New Orleans that could have made LSU a contender for the title of "Quarterback U."  The the five quarterbacks were Terry Bradshaw, Stan Humphries, and Josh Booty from Shreveport and Peyton and Eli Manning from New Orleans.  Bradshaw and both Mannings are Super Bowl winning quarterbacks.  Humphries did not win a Super Bowl but he was one of the two starting QBs in a Super Bowl. (Thanks to the reader that caught the error in a previous version of this article.)


Josh Booty plays into this discussion from a couple of angles. For one, Peyton Manning decided to go to Tennessee only after Josh Booty's verbal commitment to LSU.  At the time Booty held the single season passing yardage record in Louisiana and had put Shreveport's Evangel Christian Academy on the map as a high school national powerhouse.  In hindsight there is not much argument but, when Peyton Manning and Josh Booty were both seniors in high school, Booty was arguably a better prospect.


The other way that Josh Booty plays into this discussion is that had Booty been more successful at LSU, or at least not booed by LSU fans in his senior year, it is likely that Brock Berlin, who also played for Evangel H.S., would have gone to LSU instead of ultimately playing for Miami and certainly Booty's younger brother, John David Booty would have chosen LSU over playing at USC.


Since these Evangel players have not developed as NFL QBs some would argue that LSU did not miss much.  But even the LSU fans that still flinch at the name "Josh Booty" ought to at least be honest an admit that Berlin and the younger Booty did OK in college and all three had some talent that could have been better developed in the right situation.


So if you are buying my thoughts so far, original five talented quarterbacks actually impact decisions by two other talented quarterbacks making the total seven.  Had LSU just manage to successfully recruit and develop the four Super Bowl MVP quarterbacks, that kind of success would have likely attracted great quarterbacks from across the country.


How has Les Miles Done at Recruiting and Developing Quarterbacks?
Before I got too lost in the "What might have been - tears in my beer thoughts," I had a second idea that I was compelled to pursue:  "What is LSU's record in recruiting and developing quarterbacks during the five years that Miles has been head coach?"  One thing I discovered is that judging high school quarterbacks' potential is a real hit and miss type of business.  However, I am still committed to giving you the facts and my thoughts on those facts.  ESPN, Rivals, and Scout are widely respected for their ranking of high school football players and you can check my facts from these services online and free of charge.


Les Miles first recruiting class included Rivals #1 dual threat quarterback, Ryan Perrilloux.  LSU sign no quarterbacks in 2006 but signed Rivals #7 pro style quarterback, Jarrett Lee and #8 pro style quarterback, Jordan Jefferson in 2007 and 2008 respectively.  In 2009 LSU signed Rivals #1 dual threat quarterback, Russell Shepard.  Zach Lee who just decided to play pro baseball instead of quarterback at LSU was Rivals 2010 #9 pro style QB and Stephen Rivers who recently verbally committed to LSU's 2011 class is currently Rivals #10 pro style quarterback.  When you look at Rivals quarterback rankings it is clear that Les Miles has consistently recruited top ten level quarterbacks each year with the exception of 2006.


Scout and ESPN do not distinguish between pro style and dual threat quarterbacks and ESPN only maintains online records as far back as 2007.  Also Scout throws in junior college quarterback prospects into their rankings.  As a result the rankings will vary.  Scout ranked Ryan Perrilloux as the #2 overall quarterback in 2005.  In 2007 Scout ranked Jarrett Lee #15 and ESPN ranked him #10.  Jordan Jefferson was ranked #16 by ESPN and #18 by Scout. Russell Shepard was ranked #2 by Scout.  ESPN classified Shepard as an "athlete" and not just a "quarterback" but still ranked him as the third best player at any position.  Like Rivals, ESPN ranked Zach Lee as the #9 QB but Scout only ranked Z.Lee #21.  Stephen Rivers, who is the younger brother of San Diego Chargers' QB Philip Rivers, was ranked as Scout's #29 QB and ESPN only ranks Stephen Rivers at #55.  Two reason Rivers' rankings should not upset LSU fans: 1. his older brother was not highly ranked either and has done really well, and 2. this is a ranking established before he has played the first game of his senior high school season.  Rivers ranking will be adjusted by all three ranking services.  However, adding in Scout and ESPN to the picture changes the picture altogether.  LSU is still successfully recruiting quality quarterbacks but based on these rankings, LSU could do a whole lot better.


The question of developing quarterbacks to their full potential is another important factor.  If you set aside the Ryan Perrilloux and Zach Lee situations as things that are reasonably beyond a college coaching staff's range of control, LSU still has not done very well so far at developing the talent that they have recruited.  I think the floundering that we have witnessed the last two years is not so much a Miles vs. Saban coaching argument as a Gary Crowton vs. Jimbo Fisher argument.  Jimbo Fisher made it his personal responsibility to develop quarterbacks while he was the offensive coordinator of LSU.  His QBs have not shined in the NFL but they did well as college QBs.  I think adding Billy Gonzales and Steve Ensminger to the staff this year ought to really pay dividends in terms of future quarterback development.  Let's hope Les Miles and/or Gary Crowton puts them on this task.  If we have not learned anything else since the departure abrupt departure of Ryan Perrilloux, surely we are clear that LSU must find solid quarterback play to compete for a national title.    

15 comments:

Anonymous said...

Well there is a few things that I am a bit puzzled over, and that is, I keep reading that Gary Crowton is a offense coordinator, who does not develop the QB that he coaches?
That is crazy talk, to me..I do not believe that.
JJ,and JL,was forced to play as freshman because Ryan Perilbux was a wast of time.
JJ,and JL,played like freshman play,so that makes Gary Crowton a bad QB coach?
Zack Lee is a history that never was,and that coaches take a real chance on football players who play baseball..Stephen Rivers look like a good QB recruit to me.
Russell Shepard could be the fail safe QB this year if the other two starters get hurt.
I also think that JJ,and JL,are still learning, and will give the LSU fans a better look at how Gary Crowton coaches QB this year,because the players are not brand new freshman now.
I think most of what I have been reading about Les Miles coaching, and Gary Crowton coaching, is so much second guessing after the play,that I really take what I read,about that, with a grain of salt.Just the run of the mill college football fans, trying to talk,and look smart, to their friends and strangers alike.
A bunch of bull.

Louis said...

Bob, I completely agree with your conclusions!

Anonymous said...

couple thoughts on your review of the qb's that might have been. First, while Booty may have been a bigger numbers qb than Manning, it was common knowledge, because he told everyone that would listen, that he preferred baseball to football. Yet knowing that, LSU recruited him over Manning. Thats not simply regrettable, that was stupid, and a great deal of the sportswriting of the time went on stating as much.

Booty only played 2 yrs because he tried to bluff his MLB franchise into getting him out of his contract once he found out he lacked bat speed to play ML baseball. He enrolled, got sued for his signing bonus and then withdrew from LSU. As a result he spent two additional yrs at MLB rather than LSU.

When he got here, Craig Nall and Rohan Davey were fighting it out for the starting position, each also very highly recruited. Dinardo mishandled that situation so badly.

Booty got booed his last yr. Thats true. But only after the year earlier he decided to not throw the TD pass to the open Robert Royal against Alabama, but instead with no timeouts left, try to get personal glory and run for the endzone with 20 sec. to go. He was stopped Royal stood in the back of the endzone with mouth agape, and time ran out. No excuse. Then of course, who could forget Booty making up plays against UAB, throwing the interception that cost LSU the game...

If ever a guy warranted the dissatisfaction of a fan base it was a guy like Booty. Remember all the receivers dropping his passes? Yeah, that was really going on. Saban eventually benched him.

As for Berlin, he made it clear that he wanted to go to a passing team, not a balanced attack team, and one that contended for the national title. LSU was none of those things. J.D. Booty didnt go to LSU because his brother waved him off. Josh Booty had a bad time at LSU purely of his own making.

As for Perriloux, it really has to be pointed out that he originally committed to Texas BECAUSE, Saban refused to recruit him on character issues. Miles came in, and recruited him late and Perriloux, true to Saban's concerns, showed those issues by breaking his commitment to Texas. First of many issues for him.

The rest, well, its just hard to take a guy like Jefferson, who was recruited as an athlete, and say he was a top catch as a qb. Jarrett Lee, was a mid level recruit, no one cared, we had Perriloux... Thought we did.

As for Lee, the guy was a projected first round MLB draft not as Dandy Don says today a 10th rounder. All summer its been out on ESPN that the only reason Lee wasnt taken in the top 10 picks of the first round was that he wanted too much money to give up football.

As for Phillip Rivers little brother? Who knows. Legacy players, seems ridiculous, but then again, maybe no worse than recruiting a guy with a 95 mph fastball and having a long term plan amounting to 'hoping he doesnt play baseball'. Great plan.

For the record, Bradshaw passed on LSU because McClendon used a two qb system and ran the option, La Tech was a passing team under Maxie Lambright.

As for qb U? Bert Jones for years was less than enamored with his school, for the reasons Bradshaw didnt go.

But as for it being hard to project a good college qb? Is it any harder at LSU than FSU, or Alabama or any place else...??

Thought not.

Anonymous said...

couple thoughts on the qb's that might have been. Booty may have been a bigger qb than Manning, it was common knowledge he preferred baseball to football. Yet LSU recruited him over Manning. Thats not regrettable, that was stupid, and the sportswriting of the time stated as much.

Booty tried to bluff his MLB franchise into getting out of his contract once he found he lacked bat speed to play. He enrolled, got sued and then withdrew from LSU. As a result he spent two additional yrs at MLB rather than LSU.

When he got here, Craig Nall and Rohan Davey were fighting it out for the position, each also very highly recruited. Dinardo mishandled that situation so badly.

Booty got booed. Thats true. But only after he decided to not throw the TD pass to the open Robert Royal against Alabama, but instead with no timeouts get personal glory and run for the endzone with 20 sec. to go. He was stopped Royal stood in the endzone with mouth agape, time ran out. Then of course, his making up plays against UAB, throwing the interception that cost LSU the game, another great moment. Remember all the receivers dropping his passes? Yeah, that was really going on. A real favorite.

Berlin said he wanted to go to a passing team, and one contending for national titles. LSU was not. J.D. Booty didnt go to LSU because his brother waved him off. Josh Booty had a bad time at LSU of his own making.

Perriloux originally committed to Texas BECAUSE, Saban refused to recruit him on character issues. Miles came in, recruited him late and Perriloux, true to Saban's concerns, showed those issues by breaking his commitment to Texas. First of many issues for him.

The rest, well, its just hard to take Jefferson, who was recruited as an athlete, and say he was a top catch as a qb. Jarrett Lee, was a mid level recruit, no one cared, we had Perriloux. Oh well.

Lee was a projected first round MLB draft not as Dandy Don says today a 10th rounder. All summer its been pointed out on ESPN that the only reason Lee wasnt taken in the top 10 picks of the first round was that he wanted too much money to give up football.

As for Phillip Rivers little brother? Who knows. Legacy players, but maybe no worse than recruiting a guy with a 95 mph fastball hoping he doesnt play baseball.

Bradshaw passed on LSU because McClendon used a two qb system and ran the option, La Tech was a passing team under Maxie Lambright.

As for qb U? Bert Jones for years was less than enamored with his school, for the reasons Bradshaw didnt go. But as for it being hard to project a good college qb? Is it any harder at LSU than FSU, or Alabama or any place else...??

Thought not.

LSU goes into the '10 season with no top SEC talent on the team at qb. Again. Its the third yr in a row. Next yr will be the fourth, and if Rivers is called on to start as a RS Frosh the year after, it'll have been the fifth.

Now if thats not a problem what is?

Anonymous said...

Booty told everyone he preferred baseball to football. Yet LSU recruited him over Manning. Thats not regrettable, that was stupid, and the sportswriting of the time stated as much.

Booty tried to get out of his contract once he lacked bat speed. He got sued and then withdrew from LSU. As a result he spent two additional yrs at MLB.

When he got here, Craig Nall and Rohan Davey were fighting it out for the position, each very highly recruited. Booty expressed some entitlement, and Dinardo had a political issue to deal with.

Booty got booed only after he decided with no timeouts get personal glory and run for the endzone with 20 sec. to go against Bama. He was stopped Robert Royal stood in the endzone, mouth agape, time ran out. Then his making up plays against UAB, throwing the int that cost the game, another great moment. Remember receivers dropping his passes? Yeah, that was really going on.

Berlin said he wanted a passing team, one contending for national titles. LSU was not. J.D. Booty didnt come because Josh waved him off. Josh's bad time was his making.

Perriloux originally committed to Texas BECAUSE, Saban refused to recruit him, character issues. Miles recruited him late and Perriloux, true to Saban's concerns, broke his commitment to Texas. First issue for him.

Its hard to take Jefferson, recruited as an athlete, and say he was a top catch as a qb. Jarrett Lee, was a mid level recruit, no one cared, we had Perriloux. Oh well.

Lee was a projected first round MLB draft not as Dandy Don says today a 10th rounder. As for Phillip Rivers little brother? Who knows. Legacy players, but maybe no worse than recruiting a guy with a 95 mph fastball hoping he doesnt go baseball.

Bradshaw passed on LSU because McClendon used a two qb system and ran the option, La Tech was a passing team under Lambright. Bert Jones was less than enamored with his school for the reasons Bradshaw didnt go.

But as for it being hard to project a good college qb? Is it harder at LSU than FSU, or Alabama or any place else...?? Thought not.

LSU goes into the '10 season with no top SEC talent on the team at qb. Again. Its the third yr in a row. Next yr will be the fourth, and if Rivers is called on to start as a RS Frosh the year after, it'll have been the fifth.

Now if thats not a problem what is?

Anonymous said...

I agree with the "hard to figure out whos going to be a good QB." How did highly ranked QB E.J. Manuel workout for FSU? FYI - Alabama has yet to start a Saban QB recruit - Greg McElroy was Scout's #37 3star QB in the 2006 recruiting class.

Billythekid said...

There is no way to tell if a recruit is going to pan out. You just won't know until they are in the game. So much of it is speculation on the media and the fans part. Like myself. I just hope
JJ and JL do better than they have and that Rivers pans out.
Here's to hope!

LesistheBest! said...

Bradshaw has said that he was not smart enough to get into LSU. Stan Humphries went to LSU flunked out went to Northeast (ULM) and won a 2AA national championship.

Anonymous said...

Bob,thanks for adding the "Football Books" section to your store. Some of you guys might want to look there and purchase a couple of books.

Anonymous said...

lol - on second thought I think I will get one and send it to the LSU athletic dept. - cant decide should I send - Dummies Guide to Coaching, Complete Idiots Football, or Kick, Pass, and Run (I can read Book 2). Just kidding. I dare them to prove me wrong this year.

Anonymous said...

Didn't realize you had an amazon store Bob. You should put that up top. Cool logo.

Anonymous said...

Were the great QB's born with passing talent, or did they learn how to pass a football, from the football coaches?
I think the player, is more important then the coach...Who would you want to be LSU QB this year?

Anonymous said...

Just FYI; Humphries is not a Super Bowl winning quarterback nor MVP as you posted.

Bob Wynn said...

Thanks. Good catch. I apologize for the error. Stan Humphries was not a Super Bowl MVP and his team, the San Diego Chargers, lost Super Bowl XXIX.

I think my point is still valid. Humphries was a Super Bowl starter and did manage to have a career as an NFL quarterback.

I am updating the article to correct this error.

Anonymous said...

LSU has more success with a quarterback that simply doesnt make mistakes than a superstar under center - Matt Mauck, Matt Flynn and even Herb Tyler. In those NC years, however, we had superstar tailbacks to carry the load - Justin Vincent and Jacob Hester respectively. This season (2010), we have no well-coached quarterback, and stable running game. Season is about to get ROUGH!

LSU Tigers Central

LSUsports.net Headline News